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njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

31

Saturday, June 8th 2013, 8:55am

One thing you may not have considered is how a system remote control will affect your operating the system. The controller in the garage is not the convenience it once was, when you can stand outside with a remote control and operate the sprinklers.


Don't understand what you mean here. Won't it affect the operation of the system beneficially? How is the controller in the garage not the convenience it once was? Isn't it more of a convenience now that I have the capability to water each zone more than once per day and the fact that I can add a remote control system to it?

Again, the pull elbows are not needed. In fact, they are never actually intended to serve as splice boxes. Use an outdoor box, only this time, use the kind of cover they sometimes call "lampholder." Those have a 1/2-inch thread on them, where you can install the Hunter remote receptacle. Like with the power box, the opening in the back gets used to run the control wire through the foundation wall.


As for the outdoor outlet, I decided that I will be mounting it on my siding and drilling through my sill plate from the basement outwards. I've already removed the old in-the-ground receptable and buried wiring so all I need to do now is drill through my sill plate, attach the outdoor receptable box and connect the outlet. The only concern I have remaining is how to PROPERLY seal the hole I make from the inside AND outside of the wall. In my unfinished baseement, since I cannot mount the junction box to the sill plate, the UF 14/2 wire coming from the outdoor outlet will terminate in a junction box mounted from a joist just above the entry point. So I need to seal in the hole where the wire comes in (after I finish sealing it from the outside). I bought Duct Seal putty yesterday from HD. Is this suitable for this purpose? It sounds better than using silicone. On the outside of the house, I don't know exactly what I should do other then to add a Romex connecter to the backside of the outlet box. After making my wiring connection, do I apply putty and press the Romex connector in the hole? I assume the hole I make needs to be large enough for the Romex connector to fit through.

As for the irrigation wiring I don't see how mounting a box over a smaller pull elbow buys me anything. The advantage of the pull elbow is that it already has a PVC stub end that will fit right into the wall eliminating the need for mounting screws. If I use an identical box on the inside then all I have to do is connect the two stubs with an appropriately sized PVC pipe in between. Secondly, I was planning on installing the remote receptable in my garage, not outside. I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are suggesting with the "lampholder" configuration.

So far no holes were drilled so I will wait until I have a complete installation plan moving forward. As of now all I did was run the sprinkler wire and new electrical line into my basement in the vicinity of where the holes will be drilled. Maybe I'll post another video tonight. It's easier than trying to put my thoughts into a worded response.

An important reason for looking again at the controller location, now that you intend to have a remote control, is that they almost always get located against an exterior wall, because of the distance limitation between the controller and any remote receptacle. There is a special shielded extension version of remote receptacle and cable, that gets you to about 20 feet of separation.


Is separation between controller and remote receptable necessary? My property isn't that large. It's about 1/3 of an acre and it is square. I figured that range wouldn't be an issue. I should be getting my controller and remote today hopefully.

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,081

Location: Metro NYC

32

Saturday, June 8th 2013, 12:46pm

Have you read the remote control owners manual yet? Understanding it will explain much.

The receptacle for plugging in the remote receiver mounts by way of threading into a 1/2-inch female pipe thread, which is what a "lampholder cover" possesses. With controller wiring in a conduit, the 1/2 female thread can be part of the conduit, which is common usage where the controllers are mounted outdoors.

The reason for installing Hunter indoor controllers against exterior walls is that only a few feet can separate the controller and the standard remote receiver receptacle. Try to extend the distance by splicing on more wire, and the controller displays an error. This limitation changes how one looks to locate a controller. A homeowner with a remote control set no longer cares where the controller is located. They are using the remote to manually operate zones and check out the system.

And why do you want the remote receptacle to be outdoors? Simple. You always should want a system to be serviceable by professionals who possess their own remote controls.

-

As for your wiring, You could always thread in a 1/2-inch pipe nipple on the back of an outdoor box, and fit it through the hole drilled in the wall. The low-voltage sprinkler wiring isn't in need of any special consideration. As for mounting outdoor boxes against a foundation wall, that's why they have mounting ears.

Silicone caulk is probably the most waterproof sealant for holes you drill. The putty is what you see laid heavily around a power cable entering the top of a electric meter enclosure.

njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

33

Monday, June 10th 2013, 8:02am

Great news. The new controller arrived on Saturday and after a quick wire-up, it worked. After subsequently removing the test wiring connections, I mounted it on the wall in my garage in place of my other timer. I then connected the remote receiver with the smartport and (for the time being) just laid it on top of the controller because I didn't have any PVC elbows or tees on hand. I walked all the way to the other side of my house and manually turned on a zone. The remote worked, so I have no range issues at least from inside the house. And yes I read the manual, it makes no mention of having to maintain a minimum distance between controller and remote receiver.

All I have remaining to do is to mount my electrical box outside (which is not really part of this project at all) and mount the PVC pull elbow for my sprinkler wiring. Still trying to picture how to do this.

Below are photo examples I found on the web this morning. Does the first pic below (which is inline with my plan) not seem to be the better solution for the sprinkler wiring than the second pic?



This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "njitgrad" (Jun 10th 2013, 8:52am)


Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,081

Location: Metro NYC

34

Monday, June 10th 2013, 9:48am

Where do you intend to have the remote receiver plug in?

You seem to have misread something if you believe I claim a minimum distance must exist between remote and controller. It's a maximum. The constraint is in the form of the receptacle and its attached wires. What they provide you is all the separation distance you get. No more. No splicing in an extension wire.

Using a pull elbow as a splice junction box for power wires is forbidden by electrical codes. It's a pull elbow, and nothing more. (What you do with low voltage connections is less scrutinized, but bad practice is bad practice)

Why you use a weatherproof box, when you have a Hunter remote receiver receptacle to install at your splice location.

Of course, there aren't any splices involved in that photo, so the lampholder cover can sit flat against a surface. Most installed sprinkler systems have no need for outdoor splices anywhere except in valve boxes.



And when are you going to correct your vividly illegal plumbing?

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Wet_Boots" (Jun 10th 2013, 9:58am)


njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

35

Monday, June 10th 2013, 4:13pm

1) The remote receiver will plug into the side of the controller box. There is a opening for PVC conduit on the RHS of the box that just needs to be knocked out for the PVC to fit in. I am not interested in running the connection between the controller and the remote receiver any further than it has to be UNLESS I see that range is an issue. That's when I'll need a plan B.

2) The pull elbow IS NOT being used for ANY power wires other than the low voltage sprinkler wires. I didn't mean to imply that. If I did, that is my error. However you are say that I should not use it even for the sprinkler wires? The wire splicing (using nuts of course) is to be done on the inside of the house (inside the pull elbow in my basement). I just figure a pull elbow was low-profile and a suitable solution for splicing together my zone valve wires from the outside my house to the inside of my house. Should I use an electrical box that accepts 1/2" PVC instead?

3) I am using a weatherproof box outside because the outlet I am installing is totally independent of the sprinkler system. I simply am moving the outlet from the ground and mounting it on a new entry point on the siding. This was done to fix the ORIGINAL bad wiring (from the hole in my foundation near my garage). Now I will have no more wires running along the mulch line.

4) I asked about the plumbing issue a few posts ago but don't recall seeing a response. Please tell me EXACTLY what I need to have done. For 28 years the previous owner had a reputed PROFESSIONAL irrigation company in NJ maintain their system. As someone who has NEVER had a sprinkler system, I just assumed that it was up to code. Please tell me what is wrong, why its wrong, and how complicated/expensive of a repair I am looking at. Educate me.

Thanks!

Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,081

Location: Metro NYC

36

Monday, June 10th 2013, 6:23pm

The reason I make the point about outdoor mounting of a remote receptacle, is that it is the one thing that will make an old system such as yours repairable by professionals, when they don't have access to the controller. Pros don't even consider for a nanosecond any location for plugging in a receiver but outdoors. Homeowners prefer not having to wait around for repairmen, if they don't have to.

As for the bad plumbing, I already posted that what you have is a lame imitation of the more expensive Pressure Vacuum Breaker, which is code for when the backflow preventer can be a foot-and-a-half higher than the tallest pipe or sprinkler. You can always find a copy of the National Standard Plumbing Code at your library, and peruse it at your leisure. There is no grandfathering whatsoever of old non-compliant plumbing, even if the Crowned Heads of Europe signed off on it.

Putting splices in a pull elbow is Amateur Hour. No more. No less. But, they're low voltage, so you can enclose them in a Real Housewives of New Jersey lunchbox if it suits you. A pro would put the splices in an electrical box, and fit in the remote receptacle while he was at it, and no, the box would not be attached to the siding. It goes on the foundation wall, below the siding.

njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

37

Monday, June 10th 2013, 10:33pm

As for the bad plumbing, I already posted that what you have is a lame imitation of the more expensive Pressure Vacuum Breaker, which is code for when the backflow preventer can be a foot-and-a-half higher than the tallest pipe or sprinkler. You can always find a copy of the National Standard Plumbing Code at your library, and peruse it at your leisure. There is no grandfathering whatsoever of old non-compliant plumbing, even if the Crowned Heads of Europe signed off on it.

Understood. Can you tell me a little more about what would be involved? I'm talking Plumbing 101 here.

1) Will this job significantly change the appearance of my current setup?

2) Approximately how long would it take a pro to do this and what would a job like this cost?

3) Should I wait until I get my lines blown out at the end of the season?

4) Where would the PVB go, inside the house or outside? I am not familiar at all with the plumbing of an irrigation system...but I am far more experienced with the electrical aspect of it now. 8)

5) In the first photo below, what is that bronze-colored inverted-cone-shaped dial thingy on the outside of the house called and what is its purpose?

6) In the second photo below, what is that Y-shaped device in my basement after my shut-off valve and what is its purpose?

Thanks again.





Wet_Boots

Supreme Member

Posts: 4,081

Location: Metro NYC

38

Monday, June 10th 2013, 10:58pm

Read a PVB owners manual, and you'll get up to speed. The devices you have imitate the appearance and function of a real PVB, purely in an attempt to save money. The savings nowadays is not so very much, compared to way back when. The outdoor item is entirely non-functional, installed as it is. Read some threads in the backflow section. A pro charges $200+ to correct this sort of thing.

njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

39

Tuesday, June 11th 2013, 6:32am

Read a PVB owners manual, and you'll get up to speed. The devices you have imitate the appearance and function of a real PVB, purely in an attempt to save money. The savings nowadays is not so very much, compared to way back when. The outdoor item is entirely non-functional, installed as it is. Read some threads in the backflow section. A pro charges $200+ to correct this sort of thing.

I took a look at some of the information you mentioned and came to the conclusion that this is obviously a job for a pro. I wouldn't know one backflow device from another not to mention their applicability to my configuration. What puzzles me is why the company I have been using did not mention anything about the plumbing in the few times I've called them in the last two years. Time to find a better pro? Its obviously you know your stuff....if you are still in the business and are interested in a job, shoot me a PM with your contact info. If not interested can you recommend anyone in Passaic County? And is this something I should wait until the end of the season for, or is it recommended to upgrade immediately?

njitgrad

Active Member

Posts: 32

Location: NJ

40

Tuesday, June 11th 2013, 11:38pm

I have another plan for the entry point for the sprinkler wire cables. See
pics below of a box I bought from the electrical supply store. I will have to
mount in with four screws on my stucco wall and will have to drill a 1.5" hole
in the cinderblock to fit the thread connector so the box sits flush with the
wall. In the pics below you will notice I used 1/2" PVC. I will probably end up
using 3/4" PVC because as you can see, the 90 degree elbow will prove very
difficult to feed two sprinkler wire cables. I will use two identical boxes for
this job, one on the outside of the house and one on the inside of the
house.
















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